Strange over at the Treats for the Strange blog has a “good” post on the topic of how to approach a dominant woman. I have quotes around “good” in that sentence not because I think her advice is bad or unnecessary, but because I find it depressing that these kind of posts have to keep being written.
Do not start by saying ‘I am not worth your time’.
…
Do not start by saying ‘I know I am not what you’re looking for’.
…
Do not say ‘I am a dominant, but I’d submit to you’.
When I see these statements my first thought is “Really? Do some submissive guys actually do this? How stupid are they?” Unfortunately, my follow-up thought is then about the number of times I’ve seen the same kind of advice from so many different dominant women. Which tells me that yes, if lots of dominant women feel compelled to independently repeat this, then there clearly must be a lot of submissive guys out there who need to be told. That makes me depressed. I then realize that these guys are my competition in the D/s dating pool, and yet I’m still single. That’s normally about the time I decide I need a stiff drink. And how having written this, I foresee a blend of gin, campari and sweet vermouth in my very near future.
I like this shot, but those heels look pretty dangerous for navigating stairs. I hope he’s ready to break her fall if necessary. I found the image on the GeekDomme tumblr. Which, I have to say, sounds like a truly excellent combination of characteristics.
Hi Paltego:
I think a submissive should be self confident when approaching a Domme. Women like men who are self confident and Dommes are no exception to that general rule. Not proud or arrogant. But confident that you are a worthwhile person with something to offer. Unfortunately many of our submissive brethren struggle with massive insecurities and self image problems.
Thanks for the recommendation. Your tips on tumblr sites are consistently excellent! 🙂
Hey hmp,
I think to be brutally logical, at the start of a relationship it’s all about the total value proposition. What does each person bring to the relationship? Confidence is obviously a big plus, as is good looks, intelligence, money, empathy, conversation skills, experience, etc. etc. I’m a long way from an expert (understatement) but it seems to me that the rules of dating or hooking up don’t really change with D/s. Maybe it changes the average weighting that different characteristics get, but being needy or insecure or timid is never a winner in any scenario.
Glad you like the tumblr. I have to admit this blog would be a hell of a lot more work without the existence of that concept!
-paltego
Sooo depressing. Seriously.
I also wrote a ‘basic advice for submissive men’ post that should absolutely not be necessary. But yeah, it is…
Ferns
Yes, I remember your post. One of those I had in mind when I was saying how often I’d seen similar advice. I remember Mistress Matisse also writing something similar back around 2005 or 2006. And several others that I’ve lost track of since then.
I think a lot of guys spend so long thinking about submission, and living their ideas through fantasy and porn, that they end up considering them almost as an entirely separate concept, divorced from normal behavior. If you don’t see your sexuality integrated into normal interactions then you’ll do a bad job when it comes to connecting with the real world. Also, a lot of people are idiots. That probably doesn’t help.
-paltego
But what if the woman’s fantasy is that she is a goddess and radiates such dominance that random men can’t help but to grovel pitifully at their feet? 😛 I don’t know if such women exist, but if they do, then I would think that giving them what they want would be a good way to select for them.
Surely not all dominant women are like that, since we have complaints from dominant women about men who behave that way. But I can see why men would resort to such tactics:
1. The ratio of women who are 100% domme to men who are 100% sub is bound to leave a lot of frustrated men. I think the inclination to try to “out-sub” the next guy, in competing for the relatively small number of women, is fairly natural, even if it is counterproductive in the end.
2. Pro-dommes, who exist for the sole purpose of inserting themselves directly into people’s fantasy in exchange for money (and God bless ’em for doing that, by the way!), can give a lot of guys bad habits. Many insist that potential clients defer to her superiority from the very first contact (using honorifics, reading and adhering to a bunch of rules, etc.). Not that there’s anything wrong with that. It’s great marketing to awaken the client’s fantasy from minute 1 to make him curious enough to want to book a session. Anyway, in this environment, it’s to the domme’s advantage to get into the D/s roles as quickly as possible: she is selling her time, and the more of her time that each client requires, the less money she can make.
I guess, in the end, it’s just important to know your audience. If you want to mold a woman directly into your fantasy domme (irrespective of her needs), you have to ask what the woman is getting out of the arrangement. It seems the going rate for her to be the woman you fantasize that she is, as opposed to the woman that she actually is, is in the $200-300/hr range.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that, to be sure. But it stands to reason that if you want a relationship with a dominant woman, fulfilling her fantasies is what the guy should concentrate on.
That actually gives me a good idea. Attention dominant ladies: When you rant about how men approach you in various counterproductive ways, you should also talk about how a man would approach you in your fantasy world. May as well give a hint to the men out there how to indulge you the way that you’d prefer to be indulged, no?
I’ve a lot to comment on here, so I’ll try and keep it concise!
But the original post is all about how to approach a dominant woman. Not how to immediately start fulfilling her fantasy. That is involving her in your fantasy, or what you guess her fantasy is, without her consent. To flip it around, I have fantasies about piercings and bondage, but if an unknown dominant woman came up to me waving needles around and telling me to bare my nipples to her, then it’d be a case of “Get away from me you crazy lady!”
Some certainly do, can’t argue there, but my personal observation (without any hard numbers to back it up) is that the majority of them get equally annoyed by clients going into D/s mode right from the first contact. It makes it hard to tell the genuine clients from the timewasters who are just looking for free D/s interaction. Their initial goal is to figure out a good time to meet, if interests overlap, if the guy is reliable, what limits they need to work around, etc.
From a personal perspective a pro-domme going into full D/s mode from outside the session, or at least outside our first few sessions, is a red flag for me.
Actually I’d say a guy should concentrate on finding a dominant woman who shares some of his fantasies. Fulfilling her fantasies is not going to be enough if the guy doesn’t also get something out of them. You need an overlap.
I think that’s actually exactly what they’re saying right now. In their fantasy world guys would be confident, polite, thoughtful, treat them like people not fantasy objects, respect their boundaries and time, etc. etc. The reality is where the problem is!
-paltego
One of the main disadvantages for male submissives is that there is an enormous online presence of male submissives.
If you want to know what the female dominants are experiencing, try making a profile on Fetlife or Collarme. Collarme is worse, to be honest. List yourself as a female dominant. Even without a picture, I have gotten hundreds of messages over the span of a month. I would get ten messages a minute whenever I went online.
It’s hard for female dominants to remain optimistic, or even open to talking to male subs. There is such an overwhelming amount of male submissives that it is virtually impossible to find the needle in the haystack… especially when every piece of hay is constantly begging and pressuring and the needles seem to be quieter.
Good luck, but remember what you’re up against. It’s easier to meet people in real life, I find. Online people are too forgettable.