My previous post on male lingerie got me thinking about the topic of forced feminization. Specifically the always controversial variant that targets humiliation and embarrassment. It’s not my kink. I actually like the idea of transformation, but humiliation is never an interest of mine in any kind of play. However, I am confused by some of the opinions I see on it. As often happens, I find myself approaching it from a slightly different perspective.
A widely held view is that it’s misogynist. Why should someone be humiliated by wearing clothes than women commonly wear? If the clothes demean the wearer in the submissives eyes, and he expects women to wear them as a matter of course, therefore women must be always be demeaned in his eyes. There are lots of blog posts along these lines floating around. For example, two minutes archive hunting took me to this one by Stabbity and this one by Peroxide.
I think it’s certainly true that this type of play can be misogynistic, but is it always? That seems to make a very crude assumption about the transitive properties of clothing and context. Circumstances and social norms would seem to matter. For example, make me do a presentation at work tomorrow in Lederhosen and I’m going to be pretty embarrassed. Not so much if I was at Oktoberfest. Or stick me in a sparkly skintight leotard in the middle of some ice, and I will undoubtedly be humiliated. That doesn’t mean I look down on female figure skaters. Their abilities amaze me.
Being ashamed of very conventional everyday clothing would be a red flag. But typically it seems the people adopting that look are not into the humiliation kink at all. They’re trying to be as convincing and as feminine as possible (for example). The typical forced feminization outfit is the kind of over the top provocative clothing that’s hard for anyone to pull off with flair, let alone a hairy, overweight middle aged guy. Are they getting off on the humiliation of women’s clothes? Or are they getting off on wearing a highly sexualized outfit that makes them look silly (and happens to be women’s clothes)? If I think a french maid outfit on some guys looks ridiculous, does that make me a misandrist?
I’m not trying to argue this kind of play is always non-problematic. It definitely raises some complex questions. But I do think the logic of the view that ‘positive crossdressing=good’ and ‘forced feminization=bad’ is a bit simplistic.
The original source for this image appears to have vanished. I’m assuming it’s an Fm shot, but thanks to the hood it’s actually hard to tell. I think the anonymity of it makes it kind of hot. Is this the good or the bad sort of forced feminization?
Hi paltego,
The question of misogyny in the wearing of clothes strikes me as being somewhat flawed because it’s too reductive. I think the issue is more oriented around clothes as an expression of masculine power. A woman wearing men’s clothes smacks of that sort of determined force (think Marlene Dietrich).
In D/s context – and context is everything – being forced to wear women’s clothing might be interpreted as a symbol of submission. The same might be said for juvenile clothing in an age play scenes.
Crossdressers and drag queens are essentially thumbing their noses at such limiting views and would seem to be idealizing or trashing societally authorized markers of beauty.
A very complex issue and fun to explore.
Best,
scott
Mrs. Kelly’s Playhouse
Hi scott,
Definitely agree with the reductive part. It’s a complex area and, as you say, context is important. However, I think the idea that just on their own women’s clothes would be a symbol of submission is a troubling one. I think they might be a valid part of a submissive roleplay (as age play clothes might be). Or they might be a useful tool for embarrassing someone in a particular social context, particularly if they’re extreme in some way. But I think if they’re treated as a symbol on their own, then it runs into dubious territory IMO.
I’m not sure I agree that crossdressers trash authorized markers of beauty. My observation is that most people who enjoy that are striving for conformity with the standards. They seem to want to blend and be as conventionally attractive as possible. Drag queens are more complex as they tend to be far more over the top and almost a pastiche of beauty conventions. I’ve actually heard radical feminists compare drag queens to black face, which makes me smile!
What is clear is that it’s a very complex and multidimensional area. As I said in the post, it’s not quite as simple as forced fem=bad.
-paltego
Hi again paltego,
Something additional occurs to me:
Years ago, when Em and I were living in West Hollywood, before going to Japan, we flirted with feminization. We found the idea of it very erotic. But I wasn’t a very convincing crossdresser. I was embarrassed not so much by being in feminine clothing but because I was so ugly I felt it insulted women. If I had been conventionally beautiful, I think Em and I would have enjoyed that kink and would have gone deeper into it as an erotic expression of a woman’s power to seduce through the agency of feminine markers.
Best,
scott
Mrs. Kelly’s Playhouse
Hey scott,
I like the idea of transformation a lot. I think if I would make an attractive crossdresser I’d love to do it. What holds me back is the thought of the same problem you ran into. I don’t think I’d be good looking in the role, and it would therefore be a negative all around. I don’t want to be the ugly middle aged guy tottering around in heels. That’s not transformation, it’s just poor impersonation. Sorry to hear that it didn’t work out for you.
-paltego
Its clothing which ,if a woman wore it, (see the pic ) it would attract attention
Usually in colours woman wouldnt wear together
In materials a male generally wouldnt wear
designed for the female form
It gives the woman an excuse(if she wants one) to act out a different role
And the man
I feel a heightened sense of embarrassment in female clothing ( is my wife looking at me thinking “Why on earth does he want to dress like that)
we can play the game of “rewards and punishment”(win/win)
Add up the above = I ENJOY it
Hi Steve,
Thanks for commenting. I think your description of what you enjoy aligns well with some of the points I was getting at. It’s one thing to feel bad about wearing conventional female clothes that wouldn’t be out of place in daily life. It’s something else if the clothes are extreme, eye-catching and not designed for the male shape. If 90% of women would feel embarrassed wearing the outfit, then it’s hardly surprising a man would feel embarrassed.
-paltego
I wondered if you could do some posts on male sub clothing – I’d be interested what you think.
Feminisation’s never appealed to me and my mistress and a lot of the clothing has overtones of homoerotica. Fine for the gay community, but I’m not. Naked’s always a good look, but I keep hoping I’ll find something that says straight, masculine, sub.
Interesting thought. Offhand I can’t think of much male sub clothing, but I’ll certainly ponder the topic and see if I can construct a post.
Out of interest, what kind of stuff are you thinking of when you say ‘overtones of homoerotica’? Any examples you can point me at or describe?
-paltego
First of all, it’s reasonable to say that D/s IS a feminist issue.
Do we want to exchange power and roles in such a way that women and men can slough off the carapace of the false selves they’ve acquired from a process of socialisation that is still dominated by patriarchy? No brainer.
Then we have to look at, and deconstruct, the theatrical signifiers of a particular scene.
With forced fem, it’s complex and sometimes full of paradox, but the bottom line is that if the intention is to humiliate a man by forcing him to dress in a way that reinforces a male chauvinist view of what a woman should dress like, then it’s simply re-hashing a set of male chauvinist tropes.
Reference for the picture: The redhead is Autumn Le Fleur. The one in the hood is her friend Nicole. She is a bit flattish but she is a girl.